Login | Register




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:25 am 
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:45 am
Posts: 186
If this topic is considered improper and dangerous I'll ask the admins to remove it instantly.
The reason I think this discussion is needed has to do with recent events in my continent ( Europe ). Three countries have gone to the polls and in all three the extreme right has gained significantly in he polls. with this ascendance comes the almost never changing discourse the most important and common element almost in all of them being antisemitism and racism.
You'll ask why I make a difference between the two. Well in simple terms because one is a particular case of the other, a case that tends to take on a life of it' own. In Greece, and in most of Eastern Europe, including my own, there are almost no Jews left, only a few hundred old timers who want to die where they were born. Yet large sections of society, in particular the Orthodox Church continue to openly and vehemently preach hatred against them, sustaining and reinforcing beliefs in a world wide Judeo-masonic conspiracy to destroy the country. Now, before I continue, I'd like to say that not even many Romanians can point on a map and say where exactly the country is on it, not even in a wide geographical area. But still people live and believe in this oh so vague conspiracy like it's as certain as night or day. They have no one to hate so they invent a ghost and rage against it like there's no tomorrow.
Now the case for racism in general. People who claim to have culture and much wider lectures than me openly spread all sorts of ancient to modern cliches about people from all over the world, from the closest neighbors to the farthest reaches of the Earth. They have obviously never met a large part of the people they denigrate and openly admit it, after which they simply declare the uselessness of such a venture.
In my venture as a historian I am trying to explain the first case and maybe give a hint at the causes of the second. It's an almost futile endeavor but maybe with the answers will come a solution and a better world. Maybe.
Till now my findings have lead me to believe that both these phenomenons are caused by underlying social frustrations and the lack of an all encompassing educational system that addresses every person, from any part of the world since racism is not just a western problem. Perhaps when we see ourselves first as human beings and then as whatever culture, country or group we belong to, then these problems will begin to be resolved.
What are your thoughts on the matter? Sorry for the immense and preachy intro.


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:31 am 
User avatar
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 1216
Racism stems from a lack of understanding which causes a lack of empathy. When we lived in tribes everyone outside of the tribe was considered a strangers and likely discriminated against if they found one. When cities emerged city identity emerged, discrimination for those outside it. Then comes religious identity where all christians can empathise with other christian even if from a different town, after comes nation identity.

The vast majority of people it seems prefer simplicity, and simplicity comes from when you have a black and white, us and them mentality. Racism falls under that category

_________________
Baruch Spinoza wrote:
Joy is a man's passage from a lesser to a greater perfection.


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:09 am 
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:53 pm
Posts: 3919
Location: Mars
It's bad.
/thread

_________________
Image


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:35 am 
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:56 pm
Posts: 479
Location: The Home State of Earthquakes
I'll have to agree with Gotog there, it's more of people trying to simplify things to themselves rather than try to understand the complexity of others

As to the antisemitism, it seems Hitler's influence from 73 years ago has taken a deep root in Eastern Europe, which I find ironic since the man himself considered them to be even lower than a Jew. There is however one thing back in Nazi Germany's history that, while taking a risk in sounding like a Nazi sympathiser, they had a point in their persecutino of the Jews, on the economic bases. I recall reading a section on the History Prussia that back when it was still growing into a world power during the rule of Fredrick the Great, he spread the Jews across the territories of Prussia to utilize their skill in banking throughout the country, but his main purpose was so that they didn't form cliques. Because if they did that, then they would only go to fellow Jewish establishments and their money wouldn't get distributed throughout the nation, thus stagnating the nation. And while I'm sure his opinions of the Jews weren't as favorable to them like the rest of Europe at that time, he at least knew of their skills and used it to strengthen the growing nation's economy. But when you go back looking at the economic state the Germany was in before and after the Nazis came to power (especially thanks to a forced occupation by two nations on the Germany Industrial heart that sped up their declining economy *coucghfrance&belgiumcough*), and note that most of the Jewish population were better off despite the economic problems, they were of course an easy target to go after.

However, I don't think this is the case presently happening here, since as you said, most of the remaining Jews in your area are old timers just waiting to die in the country they were born in, especailly since the aftermatch of WWII, I think most of them left to either the newly formed nation Israel, or immigrated to some other country like the US. Thus, I think its more of the Neo-Nazi ideals and those who sympathize with Hitler and the Nazis that are talking now a days.

_________________
Image
Credit to Darkseid


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:47 am 
User avatar
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 1216
Cept i don't think it's hitler's influence at play here. Anti semistism has been around and widespread almost as long as the jewish people themselves. Take venice with it's jewish ghettos in the medieval ages for example.

_________________
Baruch Spinoza wrote:
Joy is a man's passage from a lesser to a greater perfection.


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:10 pm 
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:56 pm
Posts: 479
Location: The Home State of Earthquakes
Gothmog wrote:
Cept i don't think it's hitler's influence at play here. Anti semistism has been around and widespread almost as long as the jewish people themselves. Take venice with it's jewish ghettos in the medieval ages for example.


Yes, I agree with you on that. Antisemitism has been around for as long as the people themselves. But considering that when most younger people nowadays hear about a jew, their thoughts are more likely going to stop first on the Nazi concentration camps as that is more of the modern version of persecution for them. Since history classes love to narrow and condense their information to a degree that it only scratches the surface (if that), that to understand those situations better, you've got to do your own research. And because of that, I think it just lead to a mix of extremes where either people condemn the german people as a whole for the actions of the few, or end up becoming Nazi sympathizers because they find something that they agree with in the Nazi Ideology.

And of course there are other reasons like religious differences that play a part in their persecution, but I'd rather not touch that with fear that it might lead to a flame war.

_________________
Image
Credit to Darkseid


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Antisemitism and racism in general
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:29 pm 
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:45 am
Posts: 186
I'd like to make an observation here. Until the XIX century we cannot speak of racism or antisemitism as we see it today.
Two reasons for this.
One, Darwinism which is one of the driving forces of the modern day racist theory did not exist till then, so most differences weren't explained in such a clear cut matter, being based mostly on religious differences.
Second, antisemitism was a part of one phenomenon or another, the inquisition, crusades, religious wars etc. In the modern movements antisemitism and racism is the center of the whole ideology, around which all ideas and solutions revolve.
In simple terms politics and science did not combine the way they do until the XIX century.


Profile  Offline
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Panel

Top You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Dizayn Ercan Koc